Unconventional

I don't want this to sound like I think I know everything about Champion. This is my first real go at an MMO, but I think I understand the class pretty well, and have some different opinions than the Conventional Wisdom.

If you disagree with something, let me know. I am always trying to improve. But please don't just say "thats stupid." A well thought out response is much more useful to me.

Well, I started LOTRO in Beta in September as a Guardian. I switched to Champion in November cause it looked fun and always thought I would go back to Guardian In Live, but Champ was too fun! (I do have a lowly Guardian alt Haakor – Haakons father). I decided to start this for those who might want to dabble in champion, or compare notes on how they play Champ.

The most useful part for Experienced Champions may be the General Strategies section. I have comeup with a few unique uses for some of our “tools”.


Race:

Dwarf-
I Chose dwarf due to the might bonus and the general combat hardiness of the race. Dwarfs get a nice racial called endurance of stone or something, it raises 3 different mitigations (common included) by 20-30%. This is nice when you need to tank a boss for a few seconds to help the tank out. Or get in trouble soloing.

Elf-
Makes an acceptable Champion do to the Agility bonus which increases hit rate (we think) and Crit rate (for sure). A little weak on the might for powerful attacks and the vitality/mitigation.

Human –
Another might bonus. Not as much mitigation as the dwarf. 3000 pt heal never hurts! If there were no dwarf, this is what I would be.

Overall, Race does not seem to play a huge factor in the class. I have seen Great human and Dwarf champs. (havent seen many elf champs at all)


Class :

Champion
J/K


DW vs 2H:
This is probably the most hotly debated topic, and one of the real choices you will have to make as a Champ. Little experimental evidence is used, mostly anecdotal. I had done some testing in beta and a little in the live game.

DPS – First off let me say that due to the way our skill work DPS really mean almost nothing. We get bonuses to our damage and % added on for our skills so a bigger hit will get more added to it. Even skills which only add damage on the end are affected by the speed of the weapon used, check the tooltips. What is more useful to know is the average damage of your weapons.

Damage output testing– I use this method to test. Use the best 2H weapon you have and the best DW setup you have. (I do not think it is valuable to use matched lvl vendor bought weapons as nobody would ever use them in combat). I pick a mob that is yellow or orange. This gives me worst case on miss rate and simulates the worst fights I will have. I do not care as much on easy fights. Another alternative is to use a lower level elite so the fight will last longer, but then there are few misses. Time the battle… over and over. I usually do it 10 times at least for each setup. You can usually see the pattern by then. Average the times and compare. This same method works for Skill sequences too.

Damage output –
The two common arguments I see are that “of course 2 20 DPS is better than 1 25 DPS” This is from people that don’t know what they are talking about. The other is people saying there is a damage race and smaller quicker hits win. This was based on an old theory in MMO's that was referring to Auto-attack damage. It turns out this arguement is incorrect, and it doesn't apply to Skill use anyway.

What I prefer to see is testing or "feel". Some people have tried DW and 2H and "feel" one is better than the other. Other people have tested it and found one or the other is better. I appreciate both of these arguments, they are doing it on their own, and not trying to get it from the forums. Some people like the slow methodical 2H or the quick responsive DW. They just like the cadence, or feel. I also appreciate the testers, they take the time to scientifically figure it out, sort of. Even the testing boils down to which skill setup YOU have chosen. You could be testing DW vs 2H but unintentionally using a sub-optimal skill sequence for one of them. For you, though, the results are correct! Go with your testing! or your "feel" Cause you will undoubtedly produce more DPS with that choice.

Ok Haakon, What are you results! Remeber that these are my tests, with my skill choices! Well, In my tests only once did DW beat 2H and that was at a low level. At level 42 it was a difference of about 3 seconds in a 25- 30 second fight. I need to retest soon as I never got past lvl 42 in beta. I know a lot of people have been saying DW is better, but I just don’t see it. It may just be a case of group think, not sure, or it could be they are testing just as thoroughly as I am. I plan to test this out fully at lvl 50 when all the best weapons open up to me. I am currently 47 and just got my Great Axe of Daring! So I think no DW setup will compare with that till 50.

I have dueled 3 or 4 champions of equal level and have yet to lose, They all were DWers. I would love to duel some more Champs of equal level, so let me know if you are interested. There is no better way to find out and learn what other champions are doing better than you.

Crits – Because crits add a % damage bonus onto a hit (and with the Deep or Vicious trait adds 25% more) a weapon with one large hit is better than a smaller one (or two smaller ones). Highest I have achieved is over 600. Although, the DWer will produce more smaller crits. I like the larger crits as they have the ability to end the fight early.

Conj - Similar to Crits in that a % is added onto the damge. The highest I have seen yet is just over 800 damage on an all red conj. Because Conjunctions will not happen more often in a fellowship when you use DW (it will very slightly), DW is at a disadvantage here.


Power – Because DW is faster, yet skills use the same power, DW uses a lot more power. I find it to be crippling, but some people spec for this and add in fate and will. I tend to put all my stats into Might, agility, and Vitality.

Cadence – I find the DW setup fun, but it is too fast paced sometimes. I have found a very useful skill sequence for 2H which leaves my character no downtime, but lets me think a little.

2H SKills-
2H excells at AOE. The bigger average hit combined with hitting 4-10 enemies really ups the damage!
2H should use Brutal Strikes as the main skill (does more damage than Relentless)

DW Skills -
Better against one target than AOE. Relentless strikes does more damage than Brutal.

2H Skill Sequence-
After a lot of tweaking (and adjusting to the new timings after the Evendim patch) I have refined my sequence:
1. Start off with a bow shot (this starts my pips a little earlier and gets my sequence started right, if I don’t do it there is a pause almost right away)
2. Swift strike (uses more power, but keeps my cadence going)
3. Flurry
4. Battle Frenzy (with trait slotted for 5 pips)
5. Brutal Strikes
6. Swift Stirke
7. Relentless (I know what I said, but brutal is not ready yet)
8. (in Fellowships or for blues and below it is usually ready for ) Merciful Strike
9. Brutal Strikes

This puts out a lot of damage in a very short period of time. You will have no pauses during this entire sequence! This will kill most farm mobs and elites in a fellowship. If I am fighting even con or higher, The Merciful strike cannot be used as they have not fallen to 25% health and I fall into this sequence:

8. Wild attack
9. Swift Strike
10. Brutal
11. Swift
12 Relentless
……

Fervour: (how could I forget, thanks Sveno)
Fervour is the bread and butter skill, or should I say toggle skill, for the Champion. It provides a bonus to Power regen, Pip generation, and damage output. The tradeoff is the inability to Block, Parry, or evade. [In Beta the negative used to be a 30-35 increase in damage (but you could still parry, etc.) Trust me when I say this incarnation is much better!] In a fellowship setting this makes you very powerful! You trade off things you should not need (with a good Guardian) for things that will increase your DPS. Even Soloing, you are likely to get the kill fast enough that you will come out ahead compared to not using Fervour. It also allows you to tank fairly well. You can hold aggro pretty easily, however you suffer a lot of extra damage from the inability to evade, block and parry.

I leave it on almost all the time.

There are a few cases when you should turn it off. When soloing, if i decide to not fight anymore (Champions never retreat) I will turn it off hit my defense skills and RUN. Also in a fellowship if you are the tank (no Guardian?) you could try Glory, though it is hard to keep aggro without respecing your traits. More commonly is when the tank falls or is low I will tank for a few seconds to help out. I will sometimes turn off Fervour if I can see it will be for a little while. When this Happens I switch to a shield and my morale gear. You are no longer trying to generate DPS but to live as long as possible till the MEzzers and Healers can control the battle. In this environment you need all the blocks parries, and evades you can get.



Traits:

Virtues –

Determintaion – agility and morale
Discipline – Might
Fortitude – Might
Valour – might and morale
Justice (or loyalty) – morale and morale regen

I have heard people switching to Honour in angmar for the shadow mitigation. I will reevaluate this as I am just starting on the higher level angmar quests. edit: I've been in angmar for a few weeks now, and don't see the need for this.

Class-
Deadly strikes
Deep Strikes
Flury of blows
Vicious strikes
Fervant Rage (will be raplaced the dire need skill when I finish it)

As you can see I am speced for 1 on 1 damage, not AOE. In this game I spend most of my time soloing and like to take onsies and twosies. In Fellowships it is not very often that I would use AOE when we are in trouble, ie., I only would use it against mobs that would not kill me quickly. The 1 on 1 skills give me the boost when I need it (when fighting bosses or one or two elites or EM’s).

As you have read I use 2H weapons. The Flurry of Blows trait provides a very noticable boost to Speed and the longevity of the Flurry skill. My combat skill sequence is hampered if this trait is not used.

Aoe Traits:
Braced against Defeat
Eye of the Storms
Winds of the Storm
Stalwart Blade

I recommend adding these in if you are going AOE. They all add to AOE Damage.

Tanking Traits:
Call of the Wild
Heavy Shield use
Stalwart Blade
Swift to Anger
Blood Lust

These all increase Aggro, or Pip Generation which will suffer without fervour on when your tanking.

Equipment:
I believe Champs are for DPS. There is little benefit to slotting anything that does not enhance this. Especially as endgame approaches, I count on Tanks and Healers to keep me alive. A high morale is nice, but detracts from your damage output and therefore should not be pursued. Therefore, I try to max out might and agility. I still have a couple (one) of Vitality items. I also have taken to using the +1% crit chance earings, this is worth a LOT of agility, and allows me to focus more on might. There is a large argument over Might vs Agility builds and which gets more DPS. I try to raise them both. It seems to me that once you are hitting everytime there is not much further use to Agility. This seems to be around 300 or so. Conversely, Might appears to only push your hits to the max end of your weapons damage range. It does not appear to be able to raise your hits above the max for the weapon. So over 350 or 400 appears to have diminishing returns. I plan to test this out in detail once I hit 50.

Keep a few backup items with nice Vitality and morale bonuses. Also keep the best shield and 1 hander you can hold onto (with morale or vit bonuses) in case you need to tank.

Weapons-
Hammers will from time to time stun your traget, this helps you in soloing and Fellowships as it gives the whole fellowship free swings and reduces the damage on the tank.

Axes will reduce the armor of the target. This also helps soloing and fellowships as everyone will hit more often and for more damage.

Swords only help you hit more, they provide no benefit to the felllowship. You are selfish to use them! (J/K.... mostly)

As was discussed in the DPS section, the primary stat you are interested in is average damage, so the Hammers and axes would be superior even apart from the Felloewship benefits of the Hammer and Axe. The stuns and armor rends can happen in an AOE attack. So your chances of getting these effects go way up when Spamming the AOE. (thanks Felagoth) As you move to endgame however, with might maxed out, your focus will shift to a high max damage. A higher might pushes your damage to the max of the range, never exceeding it (except for crits). This means you will rarely, if ever, hit your low spots, and will begin to see most of your hits at or near the max 1 hit damage with mights approaching 400. This reinforces the superiority of Axes and Hammers over swords. (plus Im a dwarf with a 2% axe bonus)

General Strategies:

Aggro-
We are DPS, not tanks. Let the Grd get aggro for a few seconds. I will usually use the bow for a shot or two or else just autoattack for about 2 seconds. Then start my chain. Unless Tank is higher level than me, then he can usually keep up, still let him attack first though! If you get aggro, use hedge right away, or right after your heal skill. Ebbing ire has worked for me also, but some people have trouble with it. If you have been tanking the mob all along, you will not be able to shed aggro fast enough.

Another aspect of this is to always fight the Mob the tank is on. IF the Tank has three mobs tied up on him use the little button at the end of the tanks stat bar to acquire his target. You don't want to be hitting the two he is not actively building aggro on! See AOE for more.

Off-tank-
It seems there is rarely more than one Guardian. It falls to you to keep the adds off the minstrel (and the loremaster). I will disengage from the tanks target to intercept mobs running through the line to the Minstrel. Use your taunt or just DPS to get his aggro. This keeps the main target from moving around (if the tank did it). I then bring the mobs back to the tank so he can aggro it. Other than that, stay on the tanks target, otherwise you risk being killed. A minstrel will not forget what you did for them! And will throw some heals your way.

Sometimes the tank just needs a little help. If the tank gets below about 20% I will use my taunt and hit his mob with the DPS to get aggro. Then, after the Minstrel wakes up and heals him I will hedge and/or Ebbing ire the aggro back. Dwarves should use their stone endurance racial here. And The dire need can help a lot too.

If you do need to go on the defensive cause the tank fell or something, turn off fervour, turn on the defensive skills and switch to your morale gear and sheild. I hate when this happens! But sometimes it will buy just enough time for the Healers, mezzers, etc to get the battle in hand, or res the Tank.

AOE-
Only AOE if they are weaker mobs or your grd is higher level or very good. To AEO with 5 or 6 elite mobs around is not a good idea. You will have to get the feel for the tank in each group you join to find out how far you can push it. If you are overconned for the quest you can get away with more. If you are underconned, you should probably not use AOE. AOE attacks can trigger Proc effects and Conjunctions on non-targeted mobs (thanks to Felagoth and Ologation)

Horn-
We have two skills wich will stun mobs for a few seconds. USE THEM! You can buy a horn from crafters that does it on a long timer. There is also a skill you can use which is on a short timer. In fights with many elites this helps a lot, it gives people a chance to catch their breath and healers a chance to catch up! I will use both skills back to back if we are having trouble.

Another use is when you see a Conjunction start. Hit the horn and it will stun the group so they will not get free hits on your fellowship while you stand around waiting for the conj to happen.

The other use is when you are running (training) through enemy territory to get to or leave quickly. Follow right behind the tank and when he gets a nice pile of mobs hit the horn. It will stun them all and help everyone get away.

Interupts-
We have a skill called clobber which will interupt a mob during the induction phase. Look for mobs with the red or green sparkly rays coming out, it means they are about to heal, or sumon, or go dormant (shades). Use clobber during this time and they will have their action cancelled. It is difficult to do, as any current skills running will get in the way. When in dol dinen I used this to great effect on those healer shaman guys. I basically sat on pips when I thought he was going to use one and waited for the induction to start, then CLOBBER!. I would clobber each one multiple times. This skill alone can save your group a lot of time in instances where there are healers.

When DWing you can squeeze these in pretty easy. When you are a 2Her (like me) you will need to anticipate when the special is coming and use quick attacks till it does. Don't start a Brutal or Relentless strike when one of the Orcs around that bone-speaker is 1/2 health, he is sure to try a heal!

Damage type-
I have not had much of a chance to test this out, as you would need a few weapons of various types of equal “DPS”. I did however notice that when I switched from brognam (fire) to a crafted elf 2H headmans axe (common) my DPS did not increase nearly as much as I thought it would from the numbers. I just upgraded from the Fist of Gundabad (common) to the Great Axe of Daring (Ancient Dwarf make) And saw a much bigger jump in DPS than I would expect from the numbers.

I attribute this to damage type and will from now on only use weapons of some type other than common. I suspect (devs have hinted) that different creatures will be more or less vulnerable to different types. IE. Trolls have less mitigation against fire damage.

Mob AOE-
When fighting mobs with AOE damage like giants or trolls or dragons, get around to the other side of the mob from your TANK. This will reduce or eliminate the damage you will take.

Knock-Back
Some Mobs (Trolls, Giants, and a Dragon or two) will knock you 20 or 30 meters back when they hit. When you are fighting these creatures always keep your back to a tree or a wall. Never stand before the giants in the MM with your back to the open cliff. I have seen 3 or 4 people knocked off and separated from the Fellowship. I have seen 2 or 3 others die when they hit the bottom!
post by Hakon_Stormbrow@http://forums.lotro.com